I am continuing the Sunday series of recovering some of my debates with Protestants. This time it took place in September 2001. An evangelical Protestant opened fire. She titled the thread “Group of Catholics proposes that Mary become part of the Trinity”:

…The movement begun by Vox Populi Mariae Mediatrici, led by the theologian Mark Miravalle of the Franciscan University of Steubenville in the United States, is pressuring Pope John Paul II to make Mary of Nazareth, mother of Jesus Christ, the fourth member of the Trinity. The movement, which has already gathered thousands of signatures from devotees, proposes that Mary be considered co-redemptrix of humanity. In this case, the church of Rome would be officially giving the mother of Jesus credentials as savior of humanity, with divine qualities and no longer merely human ones.

My reply:

One of the most peculiar things about Protestants is that, when it comes to Catholic doctrine, they speak about what they do not know with astonishing ease.

Now it turns out that teaching that Mary is co-redemptrix makes her part of the Trinity.

Then Paul is also part of the Trinity, because he had the audacity to say that in his flesh he was completing what was lacking in Christ’s afflictions for his Church, right?

And everyone who forms part of the ministry of redemption (which is nothing other than man’s reconciliation with God) in Christ Jesus is also part of the Trinity, right?

And, well, the height of it all is that if the Bible happens to say that we are participants in the divine nature, or that those who are in heaven looking at God face to face are like Him, that must be because the Bible is adding millions of people to the Trinity, right?

By the way, back in the second century, the chief theologian of the Church at that time, Irenaeus of Lyons, already said that Mary was the second Eve, our “causa salutis” and mother of the new humanity in Christ. Curiously, Irenaeus was a direct disciple of someone who had received the Gospel from the apostle John himself. Yes, the same one who received from Christ the charge of taking Mary into his home. The apostle who could have known the most about Mary’s prerogatives.

This is what Irenaeus said:
“Just as Eve, wife of Adam, while still a virgin, became by her disobedience the cause of death for herself and for the whole human race, so also Mary, wife yet also virgin, became by her obedience the cause of salvation (health) for herself and for the whole human race”

Fourth century? Ninth century? Fifteenth century?

NO, SECOND CENTURY!!!

Mary, Mother of the Lord, icon of the Church and, therefore, co-redemptrix.

Blessed be she through all generations.

Extra ecclesiam, nulla salus

Reply from another Protestant: Hello, Luis Fernando!

You are interpreting what was said at the beginning of this forum very badly. The issue is that a good number of theologians (and others) want Mary to be included in the Trinity. As for this phrase: “Irenaeus of Lyons already said that Mary was the second Eve, our ‘causa salutis’ and mother of the new humanity in Christ.” That would be his personal interpretation, no matter how early the century!
In reality, the title “co-redemptrix” appeared much later and after the founding of the present Catholic Church with Gregory VII (I do not remember the name of the one who launched that novel “doctrine”; Liguori?)
There is nothing in the “apostolic tradition” about such a theory; on the contrary, what we find there is that there is no other name given among men by which we can be saved. Those were Peter’s words (and for a Catholic that must be definitive, unless he argues that Peter did not have the gift of infallibility or —ordinary magisterium?—)
If one starts from a false basis, what value does the rest of the argument have?
Greetings, and wishing blessings for you, Luis

To which I replied: No, Mary does not save apart from Christ. If Mary is our “causa salutis”, she is so precisely because the fruit of her womb, Jesus, is our salvation.

There is no salvation outside Christ, and if we believe that Mary is co-redemptrix, it is not because we accept that she saves us without any need for Christ, but rather because her obedience to God brought us salvation in the person of her Son.
We say “to Christ through Mary”; we do not say “Mary without Christ”. There is no opposition to Peter’s words.

It was God who wanted Mary to be an essential part of his plan of redemption. So essential that it was in her that the Word was made flesh. Some say “it could have been any other woman”, but the truth is that God did not choose just any other woman, but the most excellent of his creatures: Mary.

Moreover, look at another Christian earlier than Irenaeus, also from the second century and therefore from the early Church, establishing the parallel between Eve and Mary. The first was the cause of disobedience and death; the second, the cause of faith and joy

Saint Justin Martyr:
For Eve, while still a virgin and undefiled, having conceived the word spoken to her by the serpent, brought forth disobedience and death; but the Virgin Mary conceived faith and joy when the angel Gabriel gave her the good news that the Holy Spirit would come upon her and the power would overshadow her, for which reason the holy one born of her would be the Son of God; to which she replied, “Let it be done to me according to your word.”

Curious. It seems that this doctrine about Mary was quite common among the Christians who lived immediately after the apostolic age.

What? Were those Christians in the habit of inventing doctrines? Or rather, were they simply teaching what they had received from the apostolic tradition, both written and oral?

2 Thessalonians 2:15 . . . stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter.

By the way, when you say that the term co-redemptrix appeared much later, you remind me of anti-Trinitarians who complain that the word Trinity does not appear until many years after the Bible was written.
Do you know who was the first to use that little word?

Nevertheless, you will say, the concept and teaching of the Trinity are taught in the Bible, even though the word is not mentioned.
Well then, the concept and idea of Mary as co-redemptrix and cause of our salvation (the fruit of her womb is our salvation) are in the tradition of the Church.

There were more replies, but the essential point had already been made.

Author: Luis Fernando Pérez Bustamante