Some time ago, in a Protestant forum (Iglesia.net), I found this interesting dialogue, in which the anti-Catholic Protestant Daniel Sapia accused Catholics of idolatry (more specifically, of “Mariolatry”). I share with you some fragments of that dialogue with a Catholic friend (nick Palermo).
“Scandalous” photo
Daniel Sapia presented the following photo as “scandalous evidence” of Catholic “Mariolatry,” and added:
“…Sadly, pure Mariolatry…”
And here the dialogue begins:
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Palermo:
…What is wrong with calling people to celebrate the Mother of God? Did Elizabeth sin by considering herself unworthy that the Mother of the Lord should visit her, and by rejoicing when she saw her? [2] Did the Galatians sin by treating Saint Paul as if he were Jesus himself? [3] Were the people sinning when they tried to have Peter’s shadow fall on some of their sick as he passed by? [4] Were these people setting the Lord aside by doing such things?
[Compiler’s note: The same can be seen when people were healed by God by touching Paul’s handkerchiefs [5]]
Once again: what is questionable, in any sense, about celebrating Mary?
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Daniel Sapia:
Without a doubt, contemporary Mariology is far from being comparable with the examples you cite. Would Elizabeth have rendered spiritual worship to Mary?
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Palermo:
I still do not see anything questionable.
What is clear is that
a) When John heard Mary’s voice, he leapt in Elizabeth’s womb.
b) Also on hearing Mary, Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit.
c) She said the same thing to her as to Jesus: “Blessed are you… and blessed is the fruit of your womb,” and to her first. Both things would surely scandalize more than one Protestant today.
d) She considers it an undeserved favor that Mary should come to her.
e) She calls Mary “Mother of the Lord.”
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Daniel Sapia:
Would the Galatians have lit candles to Paul and made pilgrimages on their knees to a shrine erected in his honor?
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Palermo:
The Galatians received Saint Paul as if he were Jesus himself. It is also mentioned that those who received him would even have been willing to pluck out their eyes and give them to him [1]. I am sure this too would have scandalized more than one present-day Protestant. Not a Catholic, of course.
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Daniel Sapia:
Did the people who were blessed by the passing of Peter’s shadow pray rosaries to him?
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Palermo:
No, but they did bring their sick to where he would pass, so that at least his shadow might fall upon them. I would love to know what your reaction would have been, Sapia, seeing the people crowding together, shouting for Saint Peter, running, struggling so that their sick might be under the Apostle’s shadow. Were those people forgetting the Lord?
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Daniel Sapia:
I will not be the one to determine who sets whom aside in his heart (I could not!). But it is enough to see where they primarily direct their spiritual eyes (according to what they say and what they do) to realize where their treasure is.
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Palermo:
You say you will not do it, and then you end up doing it.
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Daniel Sapia:
We would have to define the SCOPE of those three little words, “celebrate Mary.” It does not remain a mere innocent “celebration.” I acknowledge her as chosen by God to be the mother of His Son; I acknowledge her as blessed, God-fearing, and docile to His will. And I celebrate this in my heart (and thank God for her life). Therefore, leaving it only there (“celebrating Mary”) is to mistake the focus of the issue. I have observed the full phrase, with all that it states and means, especially in the Mariolatrous times in which we live…
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Palermo:
So far, I see nothing questionable either in the full phrase or in any other way.
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Daniel Sapia:
Thank you.
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Palermo:
You are welcome, but I was left wondering: what would your reaction have been, Sapia, seeing the people crowding together, shouting for Saint Peter, running, struggling so that their sick might be under the Apostle’s shadow? In any case, I can guess the answer.
By way of conclusion, I must say that I have not found in your arguments any justification that supports your criticism of the sign on the front of the parish in the city of Federación.
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Daniel Sapia:
That is your problem, dear Palermo. Your backpack of prejudices makes you inevitably go around assuming things. Free yourself from it, and perhaps you may be edified by opinions different from your own. [6]
Not I, but Scripture answers you:
“On the following day they entered Caesarea. Cornelius was expecting them and had called together his relatives and close friends. When Peter entered, Cornelius met him and, falling at his feet, worshiped him. But Peter raised him up, saying, ‘Stand up; I too am a man.’” (Acts 10:24-26)
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Palermo:
Very well, but that does not constitute an answer to my question. You are merely diverting the issue to the episode in which Cornelius wanted to ADORE him, as Scripture itself clearly says. We already know that one cannot ADORE a creature, even one as great as the glorious Apostle Saint Peter. The question is: what would Sapia have done? Crowd in among the people, shout to Saint Peter, crawl on the ground so that at least part of his body might be covered by Peter’s shadow? Or, as a Protestant, would he have thought, “How much idolatry!” and walked away? There is no need to answer.
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Daniel Sapia:
You evade, dear Palermo. You evade. I have not diverted anything; rather, I presented a REAL biblical example of what Peter would have done. Scripture clarifies for US that Cornelius’ intention was to worship him. But why did Peter make him stand up, if he only prostrated himself before him? [7] Did Cornelius perhaps have a sign saying “I AM WORSHIPING”? Is it not you people who defend the idea that what matters is the intention of the heart and not merely the external act of prostrating or genuflecting? Why did Peter make him stand up if he did not know whether he was worshiping or “simply” venerating?
I think the one diverting the issue is you, who are trying to compare the worship offered TODAY to the “Queen of Heaven” with the biblical circumstance that God worked miracles through Peter’s shadow. I asked whether people prayed Rosaries to Peter… and you answered (obviously) “NO,” and then came out with this whole discourse.
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Palermo:
Saint Peter made Cornelius stand up because he understood that Cornelius was worshiping him. Precisely as you say, the Bible makes clear to us that he was worshiping and not merely bowing before him (for in that case Cornelius’ attitude would have had nothing wrong with it). Therefore, from the very beginning that event was understood as an act of worship.
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Daniel Sapia:
And how did he understand it, then? Did he read his mind? I insist on this: is it not said today that the intention matters and not the external act? How does a Pope or a Monsignor know when someone prostrates himself before him as a sign of worship or of “simple veneration”? Well, he does not know. And Peter did not know either. He would never have allowed glory to be given to him (to Peter). Do you believe otherwise? If your answer is yes, then we read different Bibles…
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Palermo:
It is evident that he understood it, because that is why he made him stand up, and because the Bible clarifies that he did it TO WORSHIP. As happens with the angel in Revelation. Otherwise it would be enough simply to say that Cornelius prostrated himself and Peter asked him to stand up; but no: Cornelius WORSHIPED, and that was the error. The mere fact of prostrating oneself does not imply worship; that passage, which I still do not understand why Protestants use so much, supports the Catholic idea on the matter.
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Author: José Miguel Arráiz
Notes
- Daniel Sapia, an Argentine computer programmer of marked anti-Catholicism. He was one of the fundamentalists who accused John Paul II of being the manpower of the Antichrist and of sitting on a satanic chair on web pages on the Internet. Jorge Pedernera refuted his arguments in the article “Pope John Paul II and his… satanic chair?”. Even so, he never recanted. ↩
- “And it happened that, when Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the child leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit; and crying out with a loud voice, she said: ‘Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb. And why is this granted me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? For behold, when the voice of your greeting came to my ears, the child in my womb leaped for joy.’” Luke 1:41-44 ↩
- You know it was because of a bodily ailment that I preached the gospel to you at first; and though my condition was a trial to you, you did not scorn or despise me, but received me as an angel of God, as Christ Jesus. What then has become of the blessing you felt? For I bear you witness that, if possible, you would have plucked out your eyes and given them to me. Galatians 4:13-15 ↩
- More than ever believers were added to the Lord, multitudes of both men and women… so that they even carried out the sick into the streets, and laid them on beds and pallets, that as Peter came by at least his shadow might fall on some of them. The people also gathered from the towns around Jerusalem, bringing the sick and those afflicted with unclean spirits, and they were all healed. Acts 5:14-16 ↩
- “God did extraordinary miracles by the hands of Paul, so that handkerchiefs or aprons were carried away from his body to the sick, and diseases left them and the evil spirits came out of them.” Acts 19:11-12 ↩
- Once the fundamentalist’s arguments are refuted and left disarmed, he chooses to disqualify the person. In this case he accuses him of carrying a backpack full of prejudices and belittles him while placing himself in the position of one who is liberated (ad hominem fallacy). ↩
- As usual, Sapia tries to take advantage of a text out of context, ignoring other passages where a similar event occurs and in those cases there is no censure because the intention was not worship. Yet Sapia cites only Acts 10:24-26. Could it be that he thinks the texts quoted below are not REAL biblical examples? Could it be that Sapia is ignorant of these texts or deliberately omits them? (This is a useful example of how a fundamentalist often selectively chooses the biblical texts he believes support his position).
He (Jacob) himself… bowed himself to the ground seven times before he came near his brother. Genesis 33:3
Then the maidservants drew near, they and their children, and bowed down (before Esau). Genesis 33:6
Leah likewise and her children drew near and bowed down; and last Joseph and Rachel drew near, and they bowed down (before Esau). Genesis 33:7
Joseph… bowed himself with his face to the earth before his father. Genesis 48:12
Judah, your brothers shall bow down before you. Genesis 49:8
Moses went out to meet his father-in-law, bowed down and kissed him. Exodus 18:7
Joshua fell on his face to the earth before the angel. Joshua 5:14
And they bowed their heads and paid homage to the Lord and to the king. 1 Chronicles 29:20
Ornan went out from the threshing floor and bowed down before him (David), with his face to the ground. 1 Chronicles 21:21
So Bathsheba went to the king (David) in his chamber… and she bowed and did obeisance to the king. 1 Kings 1:16
Nathan came in before the king (David), and bowed before the king with his face to the ground. 1 Kings 1:23
Bathsheba bowed with her face to the ground, and did obeisance to the king, and said, “May my lord King David live forever!” 1 Kings 1:31
Adonijah the son of Haggith went to Bathsheba, Solomon’s mother, and bowed down before her. 1 Kings 2:13
The king (Solomon) rose to meet her and bowed down before her (his mother Bathsheba). 1 Kings 2:19
Obadiah recognized him and fell on his face to the ground (before Elijah). 1 Kings 18:7
When this captain came to Elijah, he fell on his knees before him. 2 Kings 1:13
The sons of the prophets who were at Jericho saw him from the opposite side. They came to meet him and bowed to the ground before him (Elisha). 2 Kings 2:15
She came to the man of God (Elisha) and caught hold of his feet. 2 Kings 4:27
And when she came, Elisha said to her, “Take up your son.” She fell at his feet, bowing to the ground; then she took up her son and went out. 2 Kings 4:37
Saul looked behind him and saw that David had bowed with his face to the earth. 1 Samuel 24:9
When Abigail saw David, she hurried and got down from the donkey and fell before David on her face and bowed to the ground. She fell at his feet… 1 Samuel 25:23-24
She (Abigail) rose and bowed with her face to the ground and said, “Behold, your handmaid is a servant to wash the feet of the servants of my lord David.” 1 Samuel 25:41
Saul knew that it was Samuel, and he bowed with his face to the ground. 1 Samuel 28:14
On the third day, a man came from Saul’s camp. When he came to David, he fell to the ground and paid homage. 2 Samuel 1:2
When Mephibosheth, the son of Jonathan, son of Saul, came to David, he fell on his face and paid homage. 2 Samuel 9:6
The woman came to the king, and falling on her face to the ground, paid homage and said, “Help me, O king.” 2 Samuel 14:4
Joab fell on his face to the ground and paid homage and blessed the king (David). 2 Samuel 14:22
And Ziba bowed down and said, “I do obeisance; let me ever find favor in your sight, my lord the king (David).” 2 Samuel 16:4
Ahimaaz bowed before the king (David) with his face to the ground and said, “Blessed be the Lord your God.” 2 Samuel 18:28
When Araunah saw the king (David) coming… he went out and paid homage to the king with his face to the ground. 2 Samuel 24:19
Then King Nebuchadnezzar fell upon his face before Daniel and commanded that an offering be made to him. Daniel 2:46
Then they (Tobias and Tobit) were both alarmed, and they fell upon their faces (before the angel Raphael). Tobit 12:15
At this, Ruth bowed with her face to the ground and said to him (Boaz)… Ruth 2:10
When Achior recovered, he fell at Judith’s feet and said, “Blessed are you in all Judah…” Judith 14:7
So the servant fell on his knees before the king, imploring him. Matthew 18:26
His fellow servant fell down and pleaded with him. Matthew 18:29
The jailer… after securing the other prisoners, fell down trembling before Paul and Silas. Acts 16:29 ↩
